Josh Marshall writes: “I don’t think there’s any question that McCain’s is the dirtiest and most dishonest campaign, certainly in the last 35 years and possibly going much further back into the early 20th century.”
By invoking the 35-year rule, Marshall is leaving open the possibility that Richard Nixon’s re-election effort in 1972 was worse. I’d agree with that. Worse than anything since? Yes, I think so. The worst I can remember George W. Bush doing against Al Gore was taking credit for a children’s health measure in Texas that had passed over his veto. George H.W. Bush ran some notably dirty campaigns in 1988 and ’92, but I think McCain has set a new standard.
Last night Mrs. Media Nation and Media Nation Jr. came back from a trip to the in-laws and reported that several members of the family had asserted that Barack Obama is “a terrorist.” Not even that he “pals around with terrorists.”
You can argue all day that neither John McCain nor Sarah Palin has said anything quite that breathtakingly brash. But they set it in motion, and let pre-existings fears about a black man with a Muslim-sounding name do the rest.
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It just goes to show that Atris was right:April 10,2008: “Joking aside, if Obama is the nominee by November a substantial portion of wingnuttia will assert that Obama is, actually, a terrorist. Not just a terrorist sympathizer, a supporter of terrorists, or looks like a terrorist, but is an actual capital ‘T’ terrorist.”
This doesn’t surprise me at all. It was always going to be an uphill battle with the Muslim sounding name. I’m not saying it’s right, just stating the facts. My 94-year-old father, the last New Deal Democrat, thinks Obama is a Muslim and questions whether he’s really an American citizen. “Where was he born? We really don’t know.” I told him Obama was born in Hawaii but I don’t think he realizes that it’s a state.
I though the worst thing said about Obama during this campaign was that he would have been better off going to Northeastern than to Harvard.Bob in Peabody
But did you tell your in-laws that Sarah Palin’s baby might not be her own?Next time they call Obama a terrorist, tell them about Sarah Palin’s tanning bed.That’ll shut them up….
Not So Astute: It’s bad enough that you can’t think. You can’t even read.
I haven’t extensively studied Nixon’s campaigns, and I wasn’t alive then, so I temper my remarks with that disclosure…But depending on how desperately McCain’s followers attempt (or succeed) to steal the election through fraud, lies and voter disenfranchisement (is that a word?) then I would say the Bush campaigns of 2000 and especially 2004 stand hands-down as the dirtiest and most dishonest.Bush LOST both times and yet somehow ended up President thanks to Republican secretaries of state, a coordinated effort to block as many Democrats from voting as possible, and a Supreme Court packed by Bush’s father to be more interested in ideology than due process.And even if you put aside the actual election fraud and focus on the campaign itself, doesn’t Kerry’s SwiftBoating rank pretty high up there?
Dan, Mr.Astute is following the Fight-Lies-With-Lies approach that I, and many others, wish we’d seen more of in this campaign.Palin especially deserves nothing better.I think he knows full well the Bristol-Palin-is-Trig’s-Mother rumor was false; but it’s no less repungnant and no more false than the Obama-is-a-Muslim-and-a-Terrorist lie.
Aaron: I was being narrow, talking strictly about the content of McCain’s campaign. You’re absolutely right about the election-day shenanigans of GWB, though I’m inclined to believe he won in 2004 legitimately. And the Swift Boat lies were only peripherally attached to Bush’s campaign. In McCain’s case, this crap comes right out of his ads and Palin’s mouth.And let’s get ridiculously convoluted! Not So Astute knows the rumor about Trig Palin was false. He was falsely accusing me of promoting it.
Aaron:I don’t think it’s just a repugnance issue — I doubt anyone believing the maternity rumor wants to do violence to Palin, whereas I worry the same is not true about some of those who believe the Obama rumors you reference.
**He was falsely accusing me of promoting it.**You put it on your blog…when you should have just ignored it….
**Mr.Astute is following the Fight-Lies-With-Lies approach that I, and many others, wish we’d seen more of in this campaign.**No, just showing that the rhetoric goes both ways.What about the “Bush = Hitler” posters?Not a word about that, huh?Amazing the things that offend us (and the things that don’t).
“You put it on your blog…when you should have just ignored it….”What precisely does a media critic do astute? Oh, wait, I think I know. They write something like this “I strongly believe Sullivan should have laid off this. I could have linked to it yesterday, but didn’t, since at that point it was only fodder for a pseudonymous diarist at the Daily Kos. This is the sort of hurtful story that reputable news organizations should check out thoroughly before injecting into the debate. I mean, come on.””What about the “Bush = Hitler” posters?”You saw the media reporting that Bush is Hitler, astute? Let’s not compare apples and fantasies.
**What precisely does a media critic do astute? **Not repeat rumors that are not true. This is a smear….Re: Bush = Hitler / Obam = Terrorist?You saw the media reporting that Obama is a Terrorist, Dot??**Let’s not compare apples and fantasies.**Let’s not….
Dan, your in-laws were not impressed with the fact that Alaska tries to recoup money from insurance companies in instances of rape?That didn’t change their mind?**…several members of the family had asserted that Barack Obama is “a terrorist.”**
So Josh Marshall knew what was going on in the country when he was four years old (1973), but Obama didn’t know what was going on when he was eight? Maybe Marshall is the real Messiah.Seriously though, if what I clicked on is Marshall’s entire piece, it’s minimal, entirely opinion and devoid of any tangible facts. Dan I wonder why you think it’s worthy of our time?It’s the latest thing posted here that has left me scratching my head. The highly edited tape of vocal McCain supporters, perhaps one or two going beyond the lines of good taste presented with a caption of an out of context comment by McCain was another one.There’s plenty of material out there from which to criticize McCain, but dirty politics isn’t one of them. I wonder why you’ve chosen this angle?
I am always interested in where people learn the things they claim to know. I am curious to know from Dan and also from fish and astute:Where do you think people, including the family members that Dan mentioned, learned that Barack Obama is a terrorist?
“Re: Bush = Hitler / Obam = Terrorist?”Umm…yeah, that was the connection you were making. Sure. In that case did you miss Fox reporting on the “Terrorist fist jab” and “Obama Bin Ladin”?
“There’s plenty of material out there from which to criticize McCain, but dirty politics isn’t one of them. I wonder why you’ve chosen this angle?”Listen to Mickey Edwards on “Talk of the Nation” today and you will hear him say almost how dirty this camapign has been. As he said, many other Republicans are also disgusted with McCain’s campaign. It ain’t just Democarats claiming foul, o-fish…
sentence should have read “you will hear him say how dirty this campaign has been.”
OK, this says it more eloquently than I was able…”Former Republican Congressman Mickey Edwards says Colin Powell’s endorsement of Barack Obama is just the latest in a long series of repudiations of the GOP. In a post on Politico.com, Edwards says he’s “shocked by the disgust” prominent Republicans are showing for their own party.”
Dot – Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) who first (2004) and most famously confused Barack Obama with Osama bin Laden? I mean, credit where it’s due and all.Steve – I didn’t claim to know that Obama was a terrorist nor do I have any way to verify the veracity or origin of a third party account of someone supposedly saying that he is. What I find amazing is the faux outrage from some folks when others wonder if Obama could be Muslim, could be a terrorist sympathizer or both. In an age when an innocent pauper like Richard Jewell can be nearly convicted of terrorism with minimal evidence, why is it shocking that some decent people might look at more damning evidence against a potential POTUS and at least be suspicious? I sometimes wonder if all of us were political advisors locked in a room with partisanship checked at the door and our careers and ideally, the future of our country staked to our performance, which one of us would decline to exploit to maximum political advantage one candidate’s associations with Rev. Wright and William Ayers? I mean, is there any serious argument that these two shouldn’t be on the table?As for the suspicions of Obama as a Muslim, recall that we are at war on two fronts with radical Islamists. Some of the principles of war (and terrorism) are sneak attacks, economy of force, and infliction of maximum possible damage. We are only 7 years removed from a brilliant but despicable example of how 18 radical Muslims were able to kill 3,000 Americans and shut down the world in an attack that almost nobody expected. With the nation barely recovered from the sneak attack of the radical Muslims, our military still at war with them, and, fair or not much of the public justifiably cautious of all things Muslim, Obama has asked us to disregard his name, his ancestry, appearance and associations. He’s asked us to ignore the reliable maxim, “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck etc.”Now, when you combine Obama’s murky biography with his long associations with Wright, who condoned the aforementioned attacks, and Ayers saying his attacks on the US didn’t go far enough, it defies all logic that people wouldn’t be suspicious of Obama desiring to rapidly ascend to the highest office in the free world. If a rookie patrolman assigned to investigate a new recruit didn’t raise these concerns in his report, he’d be sent back to the academy for remedial training. Sadly, when voters raise the issue before they do the hiring, they are branded as hateful racists. Now, before I am so labeled, let me say that I don’t think Obama was ever a practicing Muslim. That said, I don’t think he denies that some of his closest ancestors and living close relatives are Muslim. So again, for anyone to suggest that in this day and age that the questions shouldn’t be out there is ludicrous. Voters would be derelict in their duty if they didn’t seek information on this topic.Another part of Colin Powell’s statement I found repulsive was when he asked, “So what if Obama were a Muslim?” as if it hasn’t been Obama himself who has repudiated that faith. I mean how pathetic for Brokaw to not have jumped in with the example of Obama’s campaign people [not McCain’s] rearranging the campaign backdrops to remove any appearance of Muslims or the outright ban on using Obama’s middle name. Gen. Powell, you raise a great question and only your candidate can answer it.Truth be told in poker terms, Obama was dealt a bad political hand (name, Muslim ancestry post 9/11) and held onto some very bad cards for too long (Wright, Ayers) but still played the game with unparalleled skill. If he wins, that should be the story, not the fiction that he somehow triumphed over “dirty” politics.
Fish – what amazes me is that you think Ayers and Wright HAVEN’T been on the table, and that Obama’s biography is “murky”. Obama has covered these over and over again.You and the McCain campaign are grasping at straws, so desperate to make something – anything! – out of nothing. It’s so obvious that it would be painful, if it weren’t so funny.
o-fish-l wrote: With the nation barely recovered from the sneak attack of the radical Muslims, our military still at war with them, and, fair or not much of the public justifiably cautious of all things Muslim, Obama has asked us to disregard his name, his ancestry, appearance and associations. He’s asked us to ignore the reliable maxim, “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck etc.”How is your thinking any different than the rationale which led to the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII? Are you suggesting that innocent citizens be denied their rights because of fear among the populace, a fear that the GOP has fostered for political gain?Your argument relies entirely on false impression and places strategic communication above fact. That is the only tactic remaining for the Republican party of today.
Folks, give it a rest. This campaign isn’t even in the ball park for dirtiest campaigns.
o-fish: Can you take your and the Republican’s absurd fear about Obama’s heritage to its end? As in: Obama is elected president, then what happens? He blows up the White House? Takes over the military and allows terrorists to flood the country? Ummm…let’s see…establishes military law and forces the closing of all non-muslim places of worship? Appoints Reverend Wright to his cabinet (as I’ve heard some brainless McCain followers actually say)?As if he will be so powerful that he could possibly get away with anything close to that.Grasping at straws and looking more and more foolish clinging to this Obama Muslim fear.
Tobe: Are you Tobe? (If you are, you’ll know what I mean.) Enlighten us, please. I’ve been following this as long as you have, and think you have to go back to those 1 a.m. New Hampshire calls on behalf of Gays for Muskie to find anything like this.Although both of Bush Sr.’s general-election campaigns came close.
“Dot – Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) who first (2004) and most famously confused Barack Obama with Osama bin Laden? I mean, credit where it’s due and all.”I finally figured it out…o-fish-l stands for osama-fish-ladin. We’re talking about professional media people engaged in a pattern of subtle suggestions that Obama is a terrorist, not a tongue tied senator. But nice try. Furthermore, you don’t understand the basis of the racist argument. It’s a typical conservative tactic to claim that any criticism of Obama will have trigger “racist” as a retort, but the Ayers idiocy propagated by the McCain campaign has nothing to do with racism. It simply provides the opportunity to place the words “Obama” and “terrorist” in the same sentence over and over. I could do the same thing with “McCain” and “cold blooded killer”, if I really felt like it, except that McCain really did kill people.Trying to insinuate Obama is some sort of non-American stealth Muslim on the other hand, is inherently racist. You yourself say his background is “murky”. Right. And it is this line that Sarah Palin has been pushing. If you go a little further down the conservative noise machine food chain, you will see the fantastical lengths conservatives go to to “prove” Obama really is a terrorist, not that he simply “pals around” with them. McCain has been running an ugly ugly campaign and his insistence that his robocalls focusing on Ayers are the right thing to do prove that he will come out of this election with nothing–he’ll no longer be the maverick, much less a figure worthy of respect. But that which isn’t earned is easily given away, and John McCain has been selling himself cheaply to try to win a place in history. I thought it was telling that at the close of the last debate he talked about generations of McCains in public service, as if the deeds of his father and grandfather somehow recommended him as a candidate. He thinks he deserves this office and his anger and contempt for his opponent is visible at every turn.
I think Jeb McGruder says now that he was in the room when Nixon gave the go order to John Mitchell to get the “Plumbers” in gear and hit the DNC hq in the Watergate. So I think RMN wins the prize quite easily. Yesterday evening when I hit “Drudge,” the top featured a photo of Muhammed Atta and Obama, headshots together. It was quite an ugly piece of art by some group I don’t recall who’ve obviously decided to accentuate the terrorist theme.
Yup Dan, it’s me. When I say “not in the ball park for dirtiest campaigns” I am thinking of the race baiting, red baiting campaigns of Nixon, Wallace in 1968/1972 and Bush the elder taking apart Mike Dukakis in 1988. And then there’s the Swift Boating of John Kerry in 2004 for those with shorter memories or fewer birthdays.
Steve & Doug: I can't help hearkening to the Rev. Jesse Jackson's admission that once, late at night while walking in DC, he was frightened to hear footsteps coming up behind him. When he turned around, he was relieved that it was three white men approaching. Perceptions aren't Republican or Democrat, merely human in origin. To act shocked that they are with us in this campaign is disingenuous. Doug: You raise a good point about the Japanese internment. While nobody I know is advocating that for Muslims, I have heard a lot of anger over 85 year-old women being frisked in airports while 20 year-old Muslim men sneak by unmolested. Are the people concerned with this racists, only Republicans, or Americans of all stripes acting on human nature?
Tobe: This started as a discussion of the last 35 years, which leaves out Nixon’s ’72 re-election campaign — which, I agree, was dirtier.Bush Sr.’s dismantling of Dukakis was absolutely miserable, and is probably the closest parallel I can think of.The Swifties were not really part of GWB’s campaign, and were peripheral, at least in my view. The Obama-is-a-terrorist garbage is central to what McCain-Palin are trying to do, and — to make it worse — is tied to his race and his Muslim-sounding name.I think if you go through a process of elimination, you’re suddenly confronted with the fact that this may well be the sleaziest campaign since Nixon’s re-election.
>>In that case did you miss Fox reporting on the "Terrorist fist jab" and "Obama Bin Ladin"?<<I think the reference was to wether it was a "gang thing" or a "hip hop thing"…please point me to the video or text of anyone in the media or campain calling him a terrorist.
Dot – I don’t need to insinuate anything. I’m dealing in straight up facts. Let me simplify. Barack Hussein Obama. It sure sounds Muslim, period. Charming new guy on the national scene, seeks to be President, period. Rightly or wrongly, Muslims today are under suspicion, period. Prudent voters then seek to know more about the new guy with Muslim sounding name who wants to be POTUS. When tapes are found of his 20 year pastor praising the 9/11 attacks by Muslims, people become more suspicious. When ties are found to unrepentant radical domestic terrorist, who boasts he wishes he had done more terrorism, more suspicion.Unbelieveably, some in society and many in the media declare suspicion racist and off limits. Obama himself recently joked that whoever named him didn’t do him any favors. He has also been forced to (however late and mildly) condemn Ayers and Wright, so are you arguing with just me, or me and Barack?
Good thing I’m not running for anything in an environment that’s anti-Irish and anti-Catholic.I’m neither Irish nor Catholic.Of course, I’m also not running for anything.
Dan your premise might have merit if McCain and Co. had:a) Invented 9/11 and suspicions of Muslims that naturally followed.b) Doctored the tapes of Wright and statements of Ayers supporting terrorism.c) Made up Obama’s associations with Ayers and Wright.d) Named Obama.—-McCain did none of the above. Dan, repeating that McCain is the sleaziest won’t make it true, in fact it makes you sound silly. In reality, McCain has been handed political gold but is too genteel to use it to his full advantage. With the media clearing the way, Obama might even escape his catastrophic political minefield. If Obama wins, he should retire immediately and make millions in crisis media management.
“Unbelieveably, some in society and many in the media declare suspicion racist and off limits.”Mmmhmmm. The nameless “some” and “many”. For you to say his past is “murky” is asinine, and perpetuates the “Obama isn’t what he says he is” theme being promoted by the McCain camp. I also haven’t seen people saying suspicion is racist, they’re saying actual racist themes in McCain’s campaign and promoted by his surrogates are racist.astute: You obviously missed Sean Hannity’s little piece on Fox News “Obama and Friends: The History of Radicalism” in which one of his experts claimed that Obama’s early years were spent “in training for a radical overthrow of the government.” Oh, then there was the guy on Fox News’ America’s Newsroom who said Obama “took his flag pin off after 9-11, and he felt, apparently, some sort of an affinity or some sort of a connection, because at that point he felt it OK to come out of the closet as the domestic insurgent he is.” Then there was the whole Obama went to a madrassa story Fox News promoted. Nope, the media sure hasn’t ever reported on Obama being a stealth terrorist.
So, Hannity didn't say it, nor did anyone who works for Fox? Isn't this like Olberman having a guy on who claims that McCain is unbalanced from his years as a prisoner?Or people saying Bush is a "war criminal".There are lots of people with opinions.You still can't point to any reporter or commentator who said this.>> "took his flag pin off after 9-11,He did.>>Obama went to a madrassa storyPlease point me to where Fox news was saying he went to a madrassa.Olberman has people on who express their thoughts and opinions too. II NBC news responsible for every opinion that gets expressed?
Astute: Google is a wondrous thing.
So, you point to a left wing site to make your point?
More Americans than foreigners have committed acts of terrorism on US soil. Let’s not forget that. And those Americans who have committed those acts were all Republicans. Let’s not forget that, either.
So, where did the media or McCain campain proclaim him a terrorist?
Dan, great start to making my point but you’d have to be Daniel Adams Kennedy in the UK seven years after the last IRA bombing of London for the analogy to work. Then you’d have to sit on boards with, endorse a book by and launch your campaign in the home of an unrepentant non-IRA UK terrorist who bombed parliament and wishes he had done more harm. Then you’d have to at first defend, then later reject, tapes of your preacher praising the IRA attacks on civilians and claiming that AIDS was invented by 10 Downing Street as a way to kill off media critics. Then you’d have to call for a withdrawal of British troops in defeat from Northern Ireland where they are fighting terrorists.At some point you’d have to demand that people stop using your middle name Adams, lest anyone confuse you with Sinn Fein leader Jerry. For good measure, you’d have to move a few Catholics out of the background of campaign events.I have some relatives in England Dan, if you want to set up shop and see if you have it any easier than Obama does here, let me know.
O-fish, whomever…Please play this fear of OBama’s muslim heritage out to its conclusion. Obama becomes president AND…
Giving credit where credit is due – McCain campaign workers confront the idiot fringe claiming “Obama is a Muslim” at a McCain rally.More of this, please.
Regarding Revernd Wright:I know of no Evangelical politican who has had to answer for the outrageous remarks made by Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell immediately after 9/11.Similarly, I am not aware of any Catholic politician who has been smeared because of his association with a church that for decades engaged in criminal neglect of children who were sexually abused by priests.If Wright and his church were white, as Evanglical and Catholic churches are perceived to be, Obama’s religious history would not be an issue.
This is quite a world we live in where the GOP candidate for president is worried about what some heretofore unknown Southside Chicago preacher said to his congregation during a mass.
Astute: Are you stupid, lazy or just obstructionist?You asked for proof whether Fox News had ever claimed Obama went to a madrassa. I posted a link hosting a clip of Fox News claiming Obama went to a madrassa. Your response: “So, you point to a left wing site to make your point?”The Web site’s not the point, the clip is. The clip was found in a three-second Google search, as I’d said. And the clip directly undercuts one of your arguments.So are you claiming that ThinkProgress somehow forged a FoxNews clip, or your computer will somehow get tainted by going to a progressive Web site, or what?Facts are facts. Your argument was factually wrong. You didn’t bother taking three seconds to check before you made your claim, and now you’ve spent more time than that writing a “rebuttal” of some sort without having actually followed the link.
OK, time to beat a dead horse here…but, I actually am quite curious about this. Since “o-fish” and “astute” haven’t chimed in, does anyone have an answer to what Republicans are supposedly fearing Obama will do once president regarding his muslim “heritage?”Not the nut job answer that he will mandate the Koran in every motel room or other nonsense. But an even slightly realistic action that Obama would take.
Force these Republicans with this fear to change their worldview? Rabbi Harold Kushner makes the point in When Bad Things Happen to Good People that people will engage in all kinds of mental gymnastics in order to keep their worldview intact — it’s like the last thing people will part with.I realize you probably wanted something more concrete.
“With the nation barely recovered from the sneak attack of the radical Muslims,”Apparently more recovered than you’d wish, or else your shit would still be working.” fair or not much of the public justifiably cautious of all things Muslim,”You say “fair or not” in one breath and then “justifiably” in the next. Heheh.
tunder – You say you don’t want a nutjob answer, so you’ve sort of limited yourself to the null set.When your product is inferior and unpopular, FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) is the only way left to sell it.
Well put, Steve. I haven’t been holding my breath for an answer and it looks like (if it wasn’t absolutely clear already) FUD is absolutely the ONLY reason that the muslim connection is being brought up.
**Since “o-fish” and “astute” haven’t chimed in, does anyone have an answer to what Republicans are supposedly fearing Obama will do once president regarding his muslim “heritage?”**Did I say he was a Muslim?
Hey Astute, Fox News says you’re a moron!Whoops, did *I* say you were a moron? Perish the thought, of course I didn’t. It was Fox News that said that.
But getting back to the original subject of the post – I’m not sure this campaign is really any dirtier than any of Atwater’s greatest hits. This “the other guy’s a strange, elitist foreigner” thing is straight out of 1988. I don’t think the degree of it in the campaign is all that different.
Astute: fantastic comback. Well done!Meanwhile,I never said that you claimed Obama was a Muslim. Another nice smokescreen that lets you, O-fish and others leave unanswered the original premise of my post. All of the noise about Obama and any muslim connection is just that. No statement about what he would actually do as president.
**Astute: fantastic comback. Well done!Another nice smokescreen that lets you, O-fish and others leave unanswered the original premise of my post.**I didn’t agree with the premise. So no answer was necessary.**Hey Astute, Fox News says you’re a moron!Whoops, did *I* say you were a moron? Perish the thought, of course I didn’t. It was Fox News that said that.**Well, I’m sure you *could* find some people who *would* say I was a moron. Doesn’t make it true.Opinions are opinions. You shouldn’t be afraid of them.BTW….Obama’s father *IS* 40% Muslim. So, Obama was born 20% Muslim. Although he went to a Christian Church.
Not so astute: How can you be “born” a religion?
>>Not so astute: How can you be "born" a religion?<<I was born Catholic….as a baby baptized, made my First Communion, etc.When I as old enough to make my own decision, I joined an Episcopal Church.I was "born" into the Catholic faith….because my parents were Catholic. I chose to be something esle when I got older.
In short, you weren’t “born” anything. Someone decided for you.We’re not talking race here. If your father was a felon that doesn’t make you 20% criminal.Calling him Muslim is a lie, shamelessly divisive and unAmerican. I don’t expect anything more from that traitor Old Man McCain, but you should know better. Have you forgotten everything your mother and I taught you?